Inventing the University?

Bartholomae talks about "inventing the university" in instances where students aren't experts in what they are writing about, but still write about their given topics as though they are experts. However, is the students' ability to adapt themselves to different fields and write as 'experts' really inventing the university? Or is it simply the students using the university to become "well-rounded"?

On the one hand students are forced to be economists in the morning, psychologists in the afternoon, and anthropologists in the evening. Then, for the students to have to go back home and have to write papers on three different topics proves they are forced to invent the university in the way that will get the students a better grade. They do this by having a basic formula on how papers should look in order to be considered, "good papers." In this way inventing the university can be translated into inventing what the university wants.

On the other hand, is it really inventing the university when students write papers on different topics without being "experts"? When students are given an assignment they are not completely clueless on how to write. There is background information given throughout the course that helps students set up their papers. If a student were truly "inventing the university" they would be writing a paper based on a topic they had no previous knowledge about. In this situation the student would have to invent the university by researching the information needed and transferring it into a form that the university thinks to be correct.

Myers vs. Others

Myers is unique compared to scholars like Brooks, North, Bruffee, and Cooper. Myers talks about ESL students who need somewhat different help than other students. While most scholars believe the writing center should be more focused on ideas and theses rather than syntax and spelling, Myers believes a different approach should be taken with ESL students. She thinks that if we ignore these "simple" problems, the ESL students would never learn from their mistakes. Most ESL students don't even realize they are making mistakes because the translation into english from their language could be very different.

Something I don't know about

Being a high school athlete, my peers always believed sports was my passion. However, once I got home from practice the one thing I cared to do was cook. Cooking is a great activity that lets you forget everything about your day and just focus on the delicious result. As a young teen, I was drafted into the Minor League Cooking League (MLCL). This was a tough challenge as I was timed and scored every time I cooked. Being pressured to always use the correct amount of baking soda and flour definitely made this a challenge. I even got to meet super star chefs Bobby Flay and Emeril Lagasse (great guys by the way). Ultimately, I retired young and never got to move on to the professionals. Now, I just cook casually whenever I have the time and I never have to worry about how long it takes me to make a strawberry shortcake, which was my specialty.

Response to audio comments and tutoring

This was definitely the first time a teacher of mine has ever responded to my paper with an mp3 file; then again it was the first time I've ever had to write a symposium too. When I first listened to the audio responses I found some frustration with the fact that I couldn't ask questions or respond to some of the feedback I received. In order to do that though, I decided to meet with Frank after class to discuss some of the issues he had with my paper. That discussion opened my eyes more towards how I'm going to structure the revision of my symposium. Overall, I liked the idea of the mp3 response because it was unique and I got to listen to how the professors felt rather than read it.

When we did the peer review I thought it helped a lot because I got to work with Lizz. We had the same basic problems with our papers, so when we reviewed her paper first, I referenced both my paper and the feedback given to me for my paper. Even though Lizz and I used different scholars, we were able to identify that our main problem was we didn't reference Bruffee as much as we should have. While we both had Bruffee in the background of our paper, it ended up that Bruffee became more of a jumping point instead of the focus. The best part about the conversation was that we were both good writers and, we new the topic enough to just talk about our ideas instead of specific problems in the paper.

Bouquet Reading

Bouquet believes the site of the writing center is vital for the writing center to succeed. The fact that the writing center is located in the university forces the writing center to tutor in a way the university's professors want. So, if a Political Science professor wants a research paper on the constitution, they don't want the writing center to help their students make a video diary.

Another interesting point in the article is the idea of a linear vs. non-linear pedagogy. Originally I thought the main reason professors might not want their students to go to the writing center is because they want their writing assignments done a certain way (linear). However, if the students were to go to the writing center, the tutors may make the students think differently in the way the write, making it non-linear. But, after our conversation in class I've come to realize that the professors' students are a representation of the professors. So, if the linear system of the professor giving an assignment to the student, and the student handing back the completed assignment based on the professor's notes is maintained, then so is the student's reflection onto the professor.

Student Tutor Exchange

I thought this conversation went pretty well, for the most part. The two clearly had some type of connection from the beginning. When the tutor starts to talk about the student's paper, he starts by complementing it and showing off the paper's good points. Then the tutor notices the thesis is somewhat unclear, so he asks the student about what he believes the paper is about. From here the tutor sort of gets an idea about what the paper is supposed to be about and tries to built on it, but the student seems to be unsure of how exactly to do that. The tutor points out some ideas that the student already has in his paper to support the thesis about manhood, but the student still seems to be a little resistant on how to approach the thesis. The one problem comes when the tutor starts to show signs about how he is taking over this student's paper. Especially when the tutor hints to the thesis as his own. At the end of the conversation the tutor tries to get the student to open up about the paper and to not be afraid to "risk it."

Normal vs Abnormal Discourse

Discourse

Normal --> maintain knowledge --> textbooks and common sense

Abnormal --> make new knowledge

All the Student-asked Questions Based on Bruffee

When does making a decision go from being biased to knowledgeable? PG. 639

What limitations do thought and conversation have, and how do they effect writing? PG639

When has a student mastered the "normal discourse" of a field and when is she qualified to explre/express "abnormal discourse?" PG 643

If the ability to socialize with other dictates one's ability to write, then why is it that hermits and the mentally disturbed (edgar allen poe) are some of the most reknowned writers of the past? PG 641

Knowledge is established by communities of knowledgeable peers. Once we get out of college and live and work with people of other "communities," how will that effect our preciously establish knowledge? Does knowledge always change depending on what community you are around? PG 644

Do new ways of learning (collaboration), in you experience succeed more often than they fail? And then can we take it? One day teachers may not be needed if we keep going. PG 652

My Student-asked Question Based on Bruffee

Is collaborative learning between a tutor and a tutee as affective as collaborative learning between students of the same class?

Page 642, "The kind of conversation peer tutors engage in with their tutees, for example, can be emotionally involved, intellectually and substantively focused, and personally disinterested."

So, can the same be said for a class where the students aren't "personally disinterested?"

-In a classroom the students all share the same assignments and therefore the same basic ideas will bounce around. With the students working, ultimately, for the same goal, many of the paper will have the same ideas and be very similar. Constrastingly, the collaboration between a tutor and a tutee doesn't involve the idea that both are working to come to the same ideas. Instead, the tutor is helping the tutee come up with, and develop, ideas for only his/her paper.

First Draft

As part of the reopening of the Hofstra writing centers. Some scholars were asked to come speak about the importance of the writing center. This included North, Brooks, and Lunsford. On January 16th, 2010, just one day before their scheduled speeches, the three found themselves getting a preview of the new writing center. While in the center, Brooks noticed a copy of Brufee's, "Collaborative Learning and the 'Conversation of Mankind. All three were familiar with the text and each eager to share their opinions with each other just one day before the conference:

Brooks:

-Minimalist Tutoring

-The tutor should take more of a secondary role so the student doesn't get the idea that the tutor is taking control of the paper.

-We also have to keep in mind that when a tutor is working with the student he/she cannot just be editting the paper, looking for spelling or syntax errors. Instead the student needs to focus on the dieas in order to make the student a better writer. Remember practice makes perfect.

North:

-We need to remember the most important responsibility a tutor has is that he/she is there to make the writer better, not the text. (Agrees with Brooks)

-We also need to remind the students that why shouldn't be coming to the writing center if they simply want an A on one of their papers, of if they want the tutors to help them with grammar. Instead we should teach our students that if they want to become better writers they need to come regularly to the writing center to improve their writing.

-This is where collaboration plays a big role; the tutor and tutee can converse about the ideas a students can put on paper and how to expand on those ideas.

Lunsford:

-The idea of collaborative learning bothers Lunsford.

-Important to remember the difference between collaborative learning and plagirism. If students collaborate too much may in fact be plagirism.

Wesch's Lecture Video

Wesch brings up many interesting points that can be discussed many times over. The one point that was brought to my mind is the questions students asked: "how long does the paper have to be" "what is going to be on the test" etc. He said how much he hates these questions because it proves that the only thing the students are interested in, is the grade. But I, as a student, say, "Why shouldn't we be?" As much as we try to learn, many times the only thing that matter is the ultimate grade. On a job application there is not box for 'amount you learned in college", but there is a spot for GPA. Additionally, the grading system isn't based on how much students learn. For example, I hate chemistry, and when I took it in high school I knew nothing about it before the class. By the end of the course, I had learned a lot but still didn't get the grade I would have wanted. It's because of that, that students don't see the incentive to retain the information rather than knowing it for the time that it matters.

Brooks Reaction

After reading Brooks' "Minimalist Tutoring" I came to realize how closely Brooks' ideas mirror North's ideas. The main idea that both writers emphasize is that the main goal of the tutor shouldn't be to improve any specific text, but instead to improve the writer. This is something that, I believe, is a key idea when being in a tutoring environment. However some of the points Brooks raises in his article don't seem like are necessarily true in the way he presents them. For example, Brooks talks about even though a tutor could help a student raise a draft to A that doesn't necessarily mean that the tutor is doing a good job because the tutor just improved paper instead of the writer. I think given the right circumstances, the student can keep in mind the improvements made by the tutor and reuse them later in different papers. In fact, I think this is a perfect example of practice something the tutor pointed out to the student. And, in Brooks' article he explains how important the idea of practicing is to a student trying to learn to write.

Mock Tutoring Session

After experiencing what it would be like as both a tutor and a 'peer seeking help,' I got a real taste of what tutoring would be like. First I was a tutor, and while being a tutor I have to admit that I wasn't thinking about how to apply Brooks or North to the way I approached the session. Instead I tried to apply my own ideas onto the session. Obviously, based on our class discussions I probably did use some of their techniques, I did it inadvertently. Right at the start of the session I realized I knew nothing of the play the student was writing about. So, I tried to learn about the play he was writing about while still making sure the ideas were still on the paper. I think this worked well because as Robert was describing to me the play, it made it easier for him to be able to put his ideas onto paper. This is a clear example of Bruffee because our conversation was an external example of his thinking.

A major reason why I think this was more of a taste instead of what the real thing would be like is because in both positions I felt as though we were tutoring students that probably wouldn't have come in asking for help. With Robert I worked on some small things to try to make the flow of the paper a little better since all his ideas were already well written. When I was the student with Emily, I thought she tried to do the same basic thing. Now, I was using a paper where I had already handed in a rough draft, revised that rough draft, and was given an A on the final copy. So, obviously this was tough for Emily to fix some things. I noticed through the beginning parts of the paper she did a good job making sure everything was flowing well, and as we got deeper into the paper she helped me develop some ideas more clearly. When working in the writing center I anticipate getting these good writers, but I also think I'll get a lot of not so developed papers. So, while this was helpful I would want to start working with papers that weren't already given A's by the professor.

Tutoring Video

This video showed me more of what actual tutoring may be like. What stood out to me specifically, was how the 2 tutors who were being interviewed kept emphasizing that each student is different. While the tutor may have a basic way of helping a student with their writing, you can really never treat two people the same way. Also, when they spoke about making suggestions instead of corrections, I thought that was an important idea to remember. When the students come to the writing center for help, I think they want the help but ultimately they are the ones getting the grade. Therefore, if they don't feel comfortable with something a tutor suggested, they shouldn't be forced to change it. I also thought it was especially interesting when they showed the "mock" tutoring session where the student had already gotten his grade and was looking to improve on it. During that clip, I noticed that before the tutor even started talking about any problems with the paper, she talked about the student's interest in the topic and his goal in coming to the writing center.

The First Blog

Well this is the first time I'm ever writing I blog so hopefully this goes well. First I want to talk about the class discussion about the expectancy of a tutor. Basically, coming into this class I was expecting a writing tutor to be someone that guides a tutee through a paper the student decides to bring in. Some of the errors the tutor may look for involve problems in syntax, structure of paragraphs, and even problems in the ideas that the student has included in his/her paper. Following our class discussion, I still basically believe a writing tutor has to fulfill those basic tasks. However, I know also realize that the tutor should also focus more on the writer himself. The tutor should work on helping the writer become a better writer, instead of just working on the paper become a better paper. This is idea was emphasized to me not only in the class discussion, but also in Stephen North's article, "The Idea of a Writing Center."

Throughout North's article, I get the idea that he wants everyone to realize that a writing center isn't a place students should go to for someone to do their paper for them. Instead, the writing center should be used as a tool for students to help better themselves so they can become better writers. One specific instance that stood out to me came on page 441 when North presents a typical remark from someone who uses the writing center. In this remark, the person says that even after the visit to the writing center, their paper was still full of errors. North goes on to say, "The axiom, if you will recall, is that we aim to make better writers, not necessarily-or immediately- better text." This helped me more understand what a writer tutor should want to be, but at the same time raises the question: Do students who come into the writing center want to become better writers, or do they simply want better texts?

While reading Kenneth Bruffee's article, "Collaborative Learning and the 'Conversation of Mankind,'" I realized how much conversation can help someone learn. Bruffee sites some writers, including Michael Oakshott. Oakshott relates conversation to reflective thought by saying human conversation is the external action for reflective thought. So, in my terms, people are constantly having conversations, either with themselves or with others. He goes on to explain how when people think, they have internal conversations. So, when people talk with other people, they are basically externally thinking. This idea could play a bug role in the writing center because when a student comes in they may not have any more idea about the paper their writing. So, as writing tutors it becomes our job to give the student the ability to use us another way of thinking.